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"Apologies"

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May. 30th, 2007 | 12:32 am
mood: annoyedannoyed

Is this because of Saturn in my 11th house?

I have had three people try to apologize for something shitty they did to me in the past year and a half(?) and seemingly have absolutely no idea how to do so.

This is not how you do it:

"I apologize...but you made me do it" or
"I'm really sorry I did that...but you deserve it" or, my favorite
"I'm sorry...but, you know, I'm right and you are being dumb"

(None of these are verbatim, but that's the gist of it.)

When you try to explain to them how they have just negated everything they "apologized" for, they just don't get it. "Sorry" means nothing if you continue to hurt someone. If you feel out of control of your behavior - and I believe that this is, to a certain extent, possible - then please understand that within yourself; show me you're using your damn mind and reflecting on the situation. I can't help you otherwise. I can't have compassion for people who have no sense of right or wrong in this area and for whom an apology is instinct and not a conscious act. Apologies aren't about looking good or saving face.

There is a sincere apology and there is one that is all show. Believe me - I know the fucking difference.

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Comments {18}

Marley Station

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from: marley_station
date: May. 30th, 2007 04:16 pm (UTC)
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IMHO, it's a combination of your 11th-house Saturn and your Scorpio energy. People react contentiously to Scorpio energy, it makes them defensive. I know because I have intense Scorpio energy and dated a man years ago who has a Scorpio Sun and he always made me feel like I was against the ropes. His energy was palpable.

They can't pinpoint the source of their reaction so they verbalize it by blaming their admittedly improper behavior towards you on you.

My two cents.

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profanelysacred

(no subject)

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 1st, 2007 06:01 am (UTC)
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By the way - Saturn is only *transiting* my 11th house. In my natal chart, it sits in the 9th.

"People react contentiously to Scorpio energy, it makes them defensive. "

Oh, I am quite aware of the problems of being a Scorpio. *laugh* When they find out, it's usually something like "Watch out!"

"I know because I have intense Scorpio energy and dated a man years ago who has a Scorpio Sun and he always made me feel like I was against the ropes."

I hope you don't have a grudge against us because of it. ;-)

"His energy was palpable."

And people say mine is, too. I really try to turn it down, but it's not easy.

"They can't pinpoint the source of their reaction so they verbalize it by blaming their admittedly improper behavior towards you on you."

A common human reaction. I understand why people do this. I just don't like getting caught up in patterns of this with no sense of progress.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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hi

from: anonymous
date: May. 30th, 2007 09:06 pm (UTC)
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will you be mad if i comment here?

i know i'm one of those. numero uno. was i that bad? :o(

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profanelysacred

Re: hi

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 1st, 2007 06:06 am (UTC)
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No, not mad. Just a little surprised.

I guess you could fit into number one somewhat, but you're not who I was talking about.

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Lionesse

(no subject)

from: lionesse_rau
date: Jun. 4th, 2007 01:25 pm (UTC)
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You don't know me. I kinda wandered in here from somewhere else. After reading your post, I wanted to let you know you are not alone! My mother from who I am estranged (on purpose) has been attempting (in her very fucked up way) to apologize to me for the horror that is known as my childhood.

1. There is NO WAY to apologize for such behavior.
2. Saying, "I didn't mean it" does not make it all go away.
3. Waiting until you are old and dieing, to try and apologize because you don't want to be all alone, is not going to work. Being old doesn't automatically forgive you for a lifetime of hateful, horrible, abusive behavior.

Ohmygoodness. I have ranted... but I think you see my point. I DO understand! And just because someone thinks they have apologized, does not mean you have to accept it. Especially with all those lovely qualifiers they've tacked on.

I say, fuckthatnoise!

(please forgive my intrusion into your journal, but I just HAD to say something!)

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Kat

(no subject)

from: katastrophic
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 04:09 am (UTC)
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Hi, I know you came over here from my journal, and I suppose it's silly of me to post my opinion but here it goes...
I don't know you that well. I don't know what happened between you and your mother. But just a suggestion, imho, anger never hurts the one its intended to hurt, it only hurts the one holding it. It's like holding onto acid.
What if you were on the reversed side of the relationship? How would you feel?
I'm not saying forgiving your mother is going to change everything that's wrong with you but maybe it'll help you heal and not come off as such an angry person?
That's the same reason I apologize to Trist.
I don't want Trist to always be so petty and angry.
That is all.

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profanelysacred

(no subject)

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 04:32 am (UTC)
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Oh, SHUT THE FUCK UP. I CANNOT BELIEVE you are telling this person they they should forgive and that you are calling me "petty and angry"!! Look in the mirror and tell yourself, will you? How fucking hypocritical.

I got angry because I don't appreciate a supposed "friend" saying various aspects of my life are an "abomination", "wrong" and that you don't "approve" of them and instead of apologizing for your insensitivity, you turn it into me being the asshole where you go around posting bullshit about me in your journal and other communities - AND THEN YOU EMAIL ME AND WANT TO BE FRIENDS AGAIN???

You are fucking unbelievable.

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Kat

(no subject)

from: katastrophic
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 04:45 am (UTC)
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Trist, telling anyone to Shut the Fuck Up is rude. Use your brain! There's far better ways of telling someone to fuck off and they aren't as moronic as the above post.
I've already commented to the "abomination" comment.
I don't see why we can't handle this privately, yet you continue to reply in your "public" post. M'kay. Whatever.
And I obviously DO NOT want to continue being friends with someone who is going to talk to me in the above fashion.

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profanelysacred

(no subject)

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 04:58 am (UTC)
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I'M being rude?!?

And what's this?

http://community.livejournal.com/ask_me_anything/7672267.html

and this?

http://community.livejournal.com/we_stalk_people/45225.html

and this?

http://kat15lee.livejournal.com/44814.html

You, madame, have been FAR MORE RUDE TO ME than I have ever been to you. You are also the one who took this into LJ communities AND gave people not involved my user name.

The hypocrisy just gets worse and worse.

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Lionesse

(no subject)

from: lionesse_rau
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 11:33 am (UTC)
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You said "I'm not saying forgiving your mother is going to change everything that's wrong with you but maybe it'll help you heal and not come off as such an angry person?"

What makes you think there is anything wrong with me? Besides, you have no idea what I have been through, do you? No you do not.

Thanks for taking me off your friends list. =) I guess you didn't really want to hear honest opinions after all. *shrug*

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(no subject)

from: anonymous
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 07:12 pm (UTC)
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The first thing you tell a complete stranger is how awful your mother is and how she ruined your life. That's resentment. Why can't you say, "My mom has/had probs, it made my life difficult, but I've overcome these difficulties and it's made me empathize with others."
As for honest opinions, I think some opinions come off condescending and judgemental. Maybe I wanted you to see that.

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profanelysacred

(no subject)

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 6th, 2007 06:38 am (UTC)
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It made me laugh when she told you "some opinions come off as condescending and judgemental" and how she "wanted you to see that". I mean, she is living in her own world with that one. One thing I can say in the relatively brief time I've known her: She is habitually condescending and judgmental AND she refuses to acknowledge how condescending and judgmental she's been to me about my sexuality and spiritual beliefs. Example of something she said to me: "I'm trying to see past your bisexuality." Well, thank you, oh superior one, for trying to "see past" this awful part of me and allow me to be your friend. I am just so grateful.

But isn't that how it usually works? The people who are most guilty of something like to chastise that behavior in others?

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Lionesse

(no subject)

from: lionesse_rau
date: Jun. 6th, 2007 11:38 am (UTC)
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I really had a lot to say in response to her last post. But I figured it was futile. I mean really. Chastising someone for posting a blog entry on a public journal? WTF? And why on earth does she care where and what I post, and if it is for total strangers or not? Is that not the strategy of Livejournal? Networking?

She completely missed the point as well. As I was using an extreme example of apologies that don't have to be accepted.

It is my opinion that she got her virtual panties in a bunch when I didn't post in support of her (on her own journal) I instead posted my honest opinion of the situation. Then finding your journal, and a post I found I needed to respond to, further fueled the annoyance. She removed me from her friends list, and posted her very weird (in my opinion) response to me here.

I'm sorry that all this ugliness has transpired.

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profanelysacred

(no subject)

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 8th, 2007 05:40 am (UTC)
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Thanks. It's unfortunate, but it's been a "wheat from the chaff" kind of period in my life, so it's topical. ;-}

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profanelysacred

(no subject)

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 04:26 am (UTC)
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Thanks. I'm sorry you're in that situation.

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Kat

(no subject)

from: katastrophic
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 03:07 am (UTC)
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Trist, I've unconsciously made you a superstar!
Well, since you're LJ is going to be read by a lot more people for the next few days, I'd like to offer a rebuttal.
I did not apologize to Trist because I felt I'm wrong for my beliefs. You cannot tell someone what to believe. It's their choice. And I choose to believe the Bible. I'm sorry there's people out there that are intolerant of my choice.
Moving on... I apologized to Trist because he was so angry and I felt bad that he was so angry. It was an apology akin to that of a mother consoling a child when he won't get his way. As I reiterated again and again to Trist in private, I'm not wrong for what I believe, but I do feel bad that he is so angry about my beliefs.
But anyways, Trist, I DO hate senseless drama. I'd really like to resolve all this in private. Do we really have to drag it out in front of the entire LJ community?

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profanelysacred

(no subject)

from: profanelysacred
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 04:24 am (UTC)
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Your apology was akin to that of a mother consoling a child? You're a real piece of work, Kat. Maybe I should go over to the fine people at ask_me_anything and tell them ALL THE SHIT you left out of your post. How you're a self-proclaimed stalker, how you're two-faced, how you gossip about people on your friends list, how you have done thing after thing to make me not trust you. THAT is why I haven't shared my name or address or phone number or photos with you, not because I'm lying or have a wife or am ugly. It's because you have lead me to believe that I can't trust you. And considering the post in your journal - that you have since deleted (big surprise) - and the post in the STALKER community and the post in ask_me_anything - and all the other "senseless drama" *BIG LAUGH* YOU HAVE CREATED AND DRAGGED OUT IN THE "ENTIRE" LJ COMMUNITY - you have very clearly illustrated that my feelings of not being able to trust you were 100% correct.

So, continue to try to defame my character, and pick-and-choose what information you are going to share with everyone in order to garner support for yourself, and whatever it is you need to do to make yourself feel better. Your actions speak much louder than words.

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Kat

(no subject)

from: katastrophic
date: Jun. 5th, 2007 04:41 am (UTC)
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I said I was a self-proclaimed stalker in jest. It seems you are a better stalker than I.
I haven't deleted my post, I've made it friends only. You can still view it, as you're still on my f-list.
I'm not trying to defame your character, you're doing an excellent job with the above post.
And I'm not trying to garner support from anybody. I think more people sympathize with you and that's their perogative.

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